Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Working Conversations podcast, where we talk all things leadership, business, communication, and trends in organizational life. I'm your host, Dr. Janel Anderson.

Today I am beyond thrilled to welcome a truly remarkable guest to the podcast. A woman whose career, creativity and charisma have inspired countless people, including myself. Carolyn Strauss is someone who has worn more hats than a department store on clearance day. And she wears them all with style and substance. And Carolyn's journey is nothing short of extraordinary.

From gracing runways and magazine covers as a top model with the Ford Modeling Agency earlier in her career, to launching and growing the Carolyn Strauss collection on the Home Shopping network. With over $160 million in SAL, she is a powerhouse of entrepreneurial success. In addition to her career in fashion, Carolyn is a certified working genius facilitator, a certified reinvention practitioner, and a certified exactly what to say Guide credentials that reflect her dedication in helping others thrive in their work and in their whole life. She is a sought after keynote speaker with appearances around the US and across the world, recently as far away as Johannesburg, South Africa.

She's also a top rated Vistage speaker, the author of five books, and the host of the People's Choice nominated podcast, Another Day Above Ground. I am so excited to dive into this, into today's conversation about workplace friendship, and to share with you how Carolyn and I became work friends and real friends. So without further ado, welcome to the podcast, my friend, Carolyn Strauss.

Carolyn Strauss:

Thank you very much, Dr. Anderson. It is an honor to be with you, ma'am.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Let's drop the formalities now, Carolyn. I want to share with our listeners kind of how you and I became friends. And I just want to note that our friendship is a fairly recent friendship.

Carolyn Strauss:

Well, I think the level of our friendship is fairly recent. Right? So I think we, we talk about levels of friendship. So this deep level enough that you actually are having me on your podcast, which you never do. I listen to all your podcasts and you are like so brilliant all by yourself. Clearly you don't need me. And it's just so much fun. It's just so much fun. When you said, let's go play, I'm like, yes, okay, so go ahead.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

I mean, and our field is non traditional compared to many of my listeners who work for corporations or government agencies or that sort of thing. But I think there are some things about the way our friendship that has formed that very much parallel with how a friendship might form in a more traditional organization. So I think, and I would slightly disagree with what you Just said, I think we have more recently gone from acquaintances to friends.

Carolyn Strauss:

Yes.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

And I would. I would say, like, you know, strong acquaintances. But there's still so much. There's still so much to explore in terms of developing our friendship. So I'm very, very excited about that.

Carolyn Strauss:

I'm excited about it, too. And I love that you remember how we met, because I, my brain is weird. Like, I don't remember how I met people. Like, people say, oh, how did you meet? I'm like, I have no idea. People are either in my ecology, in my orbit, or they're not. And that's okay. So I want to hear.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

So, yeah, so you don't. I mean, and I don't even think we met at the particular juncture that I'm thinking of. But when you first came onto my field of awareness, it was 10 years ago. It was in 2014 in San Diego at the National Speakers Association Summer Conference. Now, for our listeners who don't know this, this conference, and especially even at that time, probably had more attendees than it does now post pandemic. But we had probably, I don't know, 12, 15,000 professional speakers at this conference. And my interaction with you, Carolyn, was me as an audience member and you on stage. So at that time, and I know our association doesn't always do this anymore, but at that time, there was a lounge area where if it was between sessions or you didn't like any of the sessions, if they just didn't match up with what you needed educationally, you could go hang out in the lounge.

And the lounge is where all the vendors were set up. So, you know, they were encouraging people to stop by the vendor booths and all of that sort of thing. But in addition to the vendors, there were speakers in that lounge area, and you were one of those speakers. And I just remember sitting there being, like, mesmerized. You were talking a little bit about your Home Shopping Network journey and just your role as a sales trainer and just what you bring to the sales field. And as somebody who was relatively new, I mean, I had only been part of the association for a few years at that point, so I was still learning sales myself in terms of how to sell speaking. And I just remember, like, sitting there and just, like, gobbling up every little last word that you said.

Carolyn Strauss:

Wow, thank you. I actually remember doing that. So I remember being in the lounge area, and I remember. And one of the things I remember about that most is they actually were smart enough, and I have to find this somewhere, to have one of those cartoon Drawing people who can actually draw your content. Do you remember that?

Dr. Janel Anderson:

I remember that, yeah.

Carolyn Strauss:

Actually drew my content. I wish I could find that cartoon drawing because I could probably use that in a program now, because sales is sales and stuff. But I love that you saw me first. I actually first heard about you through mutual friends. You and I swim in concentric, interconnected circles. So I would talk to somebody, and they would say, yeah, I'm hanging out with my friend Janel. I'm like, I know her, but I don't know her. And then somebody else literally within a month would say, oh, I'm seeing Janel, or I'm working with Janel, or, I saw Janel present.

And I'm thinking, thinking, I really need to get to know this woman. So now at the CSP conference, I believe, is where you and I really, really connected as exactly.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Exactly.

Carolyn Strauss:

As deep acquaintances first. Right.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Well, and so Carolyn and I are both, and this is also for our listening audience, Carolyn and I are both certified speaking professionals, which the shorthand way of describing that is basically the Good Housekeeping seal of approval for speakers. And it just means that we have put ourselves through paces, not only of having lots of clients over many, many years, but also doing all the paperwork and getting recommendations from those clients to say we've got the chops to do this industry, and we get to go to a special conference that is only for us, that's limited to just a little over 100 people. And that's where I think we were really playing in the same sandbox more and more over the last, say, five or six years. And again, our orbits were just, like, I think, getting closer and closer and closer to one another, such that we be. I think we have this certain familiarity, as if we were friends that we had already, like, gone out to dinner or, you know, hung out for a weekend or something, even though we hadn't.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

I think, yes, it's probably through our mutual acquaintances that we almost felt like we had.

Carolyn Strauss:

So I think that's interesting, because if we're talking about making friends as grownups, I mean, that's where you and I started with you inviting me on your show, because we were talking about how a lot of people find it very challenging to make friends as grownups. And if we have friends from long, long, long time, which both of us do, those lives no longer intersect, it seems, somehow. So if it's a friend from when you grew up or where you grew up, then it's hard to actually connect unless you get on a plane for some of us and go there. So I think it's crucial for adults to make friends. So one of the things I would suggest, so let's do, you know, tips.

You're the doctor. I've played one on tv, so I am an actor. I'm not a doctor, I'm not a PhD, but I've played one on TV. And I think that looking at your circles and then who's in their circles that you keep energetically or through word of mouth bumping into.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Yeah.

Carolyn Strauss:

And so if you work in an office with a bunch of people, like in your episode that I listened to your podcast, number one, it was number.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

172, How to make friends at Work. And in fact, this, again, this episode is really like the follow up to that to say how we did this.

Carolyn Strauss:

Yeah. So I think it's so important to look around and go, you know what, I love what she says, or I like how he responds to things. Or this is somebody that seems interesting to me because as you know, it's more important to be in interested than interesting. So if you're interested in someone, then they'll probably really be open to having a conversation that might deepen the friendship. That's. So that's sort of what happened with us.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Right.

Carolyn Strauss:

We were in these concentric circles.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Yeah.

Carolyn Strauss:

And. And then we finally said, wait a minute, let me have an actual conversation with this actual person to see if I like her as much.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Yeah. And I think one of the, one of the really interesting things that happened in our journey is that as a follow up to the CSP conference that we were mentioning is there were these additional follow up sessions where we could hold ourselves accountable to doing what we said we were going to do. And Carolyn and I were both at them, they were completely optional and they were held on zoom. And twice in a row we ended up just randomly being put in the same small group to talk about accountability and what we said we were going to do at that thing and did we do it? And as we were in those conversations, I was like, dang, I want to know this woman more. And like, we have a lot, there's a lot more like connection here and mutual interest and mutual commonalities and everything than I had first imagined.

Carolyn Strauss:

There's also a mutual awe, I think, I mean, because you said you first heard saw me and thought yay me on, on the platform. So yay, thank you. But for you, I mean, come you're a PhD. I can't. I can't spell PhD. So, I mean, I look at that and I go, wow, that's incredible, the amount of work that you put in to actually learn what you do and what you teach on stage. So I love that. The other thing that I love is your level of integrity on how you value your work, how you value your clients, and how you value your family and your family time.

So looking at that, I think it's so important to surround yourself with people who remind you of the best parts of yourself, and that's what you do for me.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Oh. Oh, wow. Thank you.

Carolyn Strauss:

Thank you. Yeah, it's true. Can I tell you my other core value? I have a core value around friendships. In fact, one of my relationships in 2000, I was dating somebody who I really loved. We have the same birthday. I loved his family. Anyway, we were together for about a year, and when we broke up, what he said to me was, you have more friends and are busier than anybody I've ever met. And I really thought about that.

And first of all, I can't be with a man who denies me my time with my friends. So that was a, you know, deal breaker. So that didn't. It's a good thing that that didn't last. Great guy. Still friends. And by the way, I'm still friends with all of my exes, and that's something that we can actually look at because maybe that's where friendships can also come.

But one of the things where I live from is a value that I call vicarious happiness. I live from vicarious happiness, which means that I am happy for the happiness and joy of my friends, whether or not it has anything to do with me.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Oh, I love that. And that is very much in alignment withMeditation about, you know, just. Which, if you're familiar with that, it's just about, like, wishing others well, wishing others to be free of suffering and for the others to find happiness. And when you imagine somebody else, somebody that, you know, being happy and being free from suffering and being, you know, just like, living their best life, it just makes you happy thinking about. Just thinking that thought makes you happy.

Carolyn Strauss:

When I hear about my friends getting an incredible keynote or an incredible consulting contract or take a vacation, that's just ridiculously phenomenal. There is not one molecule in my body that resents it. There can be a little bit of envy, like, wow, maybe someday I want to do that or try that or get that. But there's no. There's no resentment that they got to do that and I didn't. So I literally live from. I am so happy for you if it's what you want for you. Oh, yeah.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

And I think you just, like, think that thought and you just feel happy for you just feel happy for others, and then, like, transitive property. You feel happy yourself.

Carolyn Strauss:

Yeah. So I think one of the keys for women friendships. Look, it is. And you're going to. You're the doctor here. But I think it is biological that we occasionally have upset or resentment that another woman got something that we didn't, because there's not enough. It's like that lack of abundance mentality. And I do think that there's something you know, I studied the whole differences between men and women for many, many, many years with a woman named Alison Armstrong. She was my mentor, so you can look her up if you guys want. And one of the things she talks about is this thing that women have, this voice in our heads that say, we should be as I should be as good as Janel at doing a podcast. I should be as good as Janel on a stage. I should be as good with family as Janel is.

And you know what? Well, first of all, we got to stop shooting all over ourselves. But it is biological that that happens. So I think to override it with vicarious happiness is really healthy and will attract more fabulous friends into your world.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Yeah. And I get that sense of. I call it genealogy. I get that sense of genealogy when I go into somebody's house that is, like, spotless and beautifully decorated. And, I mean, I live in a state of chaos with, like, two kids, two teenagers still living at home, and a dog, and there's dog hair everywhere. And, like, we can just never kind of keep on top of everything. And housekeeping is not my foray. It's not my forte, I should say.

I'm just not. I'm not. And I don't put a lot of time and effort into. Anybody who's been at my house recently knows I don't put a lot of time and effort into it. But I go into somebody else's house, and I just have this immediate, like, oh, my house should be this nice. My house should be this. And I have to remind myself, no, I'm up to other things. I'm raising teenagers.

I've got a dog. I've got, like, all the. I'm running a business. I like, you know, maybe someday when I'm retired, I'll have a nice house or, you know, a neat, tidy house.

Carolyn Strauss:

And until retired, you'll pay someone to come in every other day. Which is why I love staying at hotels, because somebody comes and makes my bed every day. Yes, please. Because I'm not going to do it. I'm the same as you. My house, Right.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

And it's not even about making the bed or the vacuuming. It's just about, like, there's just stuff everywhere and has a mind of its own. And I just have to remind myself, oh, yeah, that's their choice to have their stuff. That way, my choices are being made in other places, and my effort isn't necessarily always going after my stuff. It's going to, like, get. Get people to cheer, practice or whatever they need to do.

Carolyn Strauss:

Exactly, exactly. Although if I had teenagers, I might pay them to do it. So I'm thinking maybe there's a business opportunity for your kids now.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Definitely. Definite. Or even just put their own stuff away. You know, I'd be happy with that. I'd be happy with that

Carolyn Strauss:

So. So, okay. So I was actually talking to some to my partners on my podcast, Another Day Above Ground, which is the podcast for buying about baby boomers. It's a podcast for people who can't download a podcast, which is the flaw in the plan. But anyway, so we have this fun podcast. We've got over 250 episodes.

I'm. I'm with two older gentlemen because, you know, I won't admit that I'm a baby boomer, but they are my partners in it. And we were just talking and I asked them about their male friendships, and both of them said they hadn't made a new close male friend in over a decade. And we're women, and we are, you know, at least 45 years old, and we have now made this really close friendship. And, you know, we have several of them. We've talked about that. We both have several newer, deep friendships.

So I find that interesting. What's your advice for men, Janel? Because I think the men who are listening actually need our help, and maybe the partners of the women who are listening to you could learn something here.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Yeah. Yeah. Well. And I mean, I'm just going to go back to some of the advice I gave on episode 172, and I think, because I'm also trying to compare that to what's going on with us, but one of them is just initiate small talk and be curious about other people. So, like, you know, if you're. And I think it doesn't matter if you're male or female, but you hop on that zoom call or that teams call, and you're a few minutes early, and as other people get there before the meeting starts, just be like, so what everybody do this weekend? Or did you catch that? I mean, here in Minnesota, we thought this, this last weekend, we thought the Vikings had it in the bag over Detroit. And then like in the last 11 seconds, they tied the game and it went into overtime. And, you know, you don't even have to be a sports fan to be able to talk about that.

You could have just heard that headline on the, on the radio and you could, you know, dive in with something like that or the weather or, you know, what people are up to as the seasons change. There are so many ways to just get curious about other people. And I think sometimes in our current work culture, we are so like, back to back to back scheduled in our meetings that we just forget to do that. And so I think just pausing and taking a breath and just getting curious about other people is a great place to start. And I know just my own friendship journey has changed. It took a weird trajectory because we moved and we moved during the pandemic. And so we moved at a time when, like, everybody was afraid to talk to their neighbors, first of all. And we moved away from the neighborhood where our children had gone to elementary school.

And you know, when kids make friends, then if the kids parents are fun to be around, then the family spend time together and you become friends with your parent, with your kids, friends, parents. And we moved away from all that. And so it was like kind of like starting over. And so I looked not only to my professional network, who do I want to be more close friends with, but also in my own business community. So I recently joined the Chamber of Commerce in my community to make to make business friends. Not necessarily to get business. I just want to make friends with other people who are small business owners because they get me and I get them.

Carolyn Strauss:

I recommend that all the time. It's the Chamber of Commerce, it's the Rotary International Clubs. You can join your local Rotary Club. You can volunteer at your religious. At your church or at your synagogue or whatever your. Whatever your, you know, whatever your flavor of religion happens to be. You can go volunteer there or take a class. I meet people when I take classes all the time.

Yeah, I take classes all the time. Like if there's a learn. When I lived in New York City, there was the Learning Annex, and so you could go to the Learning Annex and Take a class, and there would always be somebody interesting there. And then you go for coffee, and sometimes they turn into friends. One of my longest friends in New York City, I met at jury duty. I swear, she and I were friends for a lot of years, and then she moved away. But. And then again, friends.

They say that friends are in your life for a reason, a season or a lifetime. And sometimes when people move away, the friendship no longer it, you know, lands anymore, or there's no longer a need for it.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Right.

Carolyn Strauss:

But. But I think it's important to put ourselves. Look, part of if. And you talk about this, the Maslow's hierarchy of needs. One of the needs, serious needs, and especially if you're an extrovert like me, one of the serious needs is social connection. Covid almost did me in it. It kicked my butt as an extrovert. I was like, every day it's going to end.

Every day it's going to end. You know, a year later, it was finally starting to Wayne. But I think that finding, finding your tribe, I think, is more important now than ever. And I think at work, it would seem to me that it would be easier because there is that common baseline of something and then take it one level up and find that thing about them that's fascinating to you.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Well, or. Yeah. Or that you have in common that maybe you didn't know you have in common. Like, maybe you both have a rescue dog and you didn't know that because you never brought it up. And one of the things I learned about you, that we have in common when I was doing my research on you for introducing you for this podcast, is that we both have degrees from Emerson College.

Carolyn Strauss:

You did not go to Emerson. Okay. Okay.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

I did my master's degree at Emerson, so I would have been there. So. And for the listening audience, Carolyn has a bachelor's in fine arts from Emerson, which prepared her to be on stage and be an actor and so forth. And I did my master's degree at Emerson College after deciding I wanted to continue my education. And I was living in Boston and so.

Carolyn Strauss:

Yeah. Where did you live? Where did you live, Janel, in Boston?

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Well, I went to Boston University as an undergrad, and so we probably hung out. I mean, we probably have a lot of, like, bars and restaurants and places that we. That we used to both haunt. I waited tables at Pizzeria Uno at Kenmore Square.

Carolyn Strauss:

Okay. I rated tables at the Ground Round at the Pru. Oh, yeah, my God. I went to Pizzeria, you know, in Kenmore Square. All the time, my sister lived in Kenmore Square because she went to bu and I lived at the corner of Dartmouth and Newbury.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Oh, I think I got my cut right down there somewhere on Newberry, probably not too far from Dartmouth. See, so this is. We are actively demonstrating for the listening audience how you find common interests.

Carolyn Strauss:

And now we have another layer of stuff to talk about. My gosh, like the professors that you had and what you studied and the people that you knew and the people that I know and the people in the alumni. Now think about your circle of alumni and my circle of friends who are alumni. And now we get to, like, put them together in some kind of a cohort. This is ridiculous.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

I told you there was going to be a surprise coming up. I knew you didn't.

Carolyn Strauss:

I figured.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

I had no idea.

Carolyn Strauss:

I had no idea because I didn't do my research because I'm not a PhD. We talked about that.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Research is an occupational hazard for me. My audience knows that.

Carolyn Strauss:

Yeah. This is. Well, this is why our friendship is so great, because you can do the research and I can riff on it. It'll be great.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

One of the other things that I recommended in episode 172, which we have definitely done, is to offer help and support to other people. And it is so hard to ask for help. I mean, most people don't like to ask for help, but when it gets offered, we definitely will. You know, sometimes in. You know, in Minnesota, we sometimes we have to offer help three times before somebody will take us up on it because we're so darn, you know, independent and don't want to accept help. But one of our first conversations that you and I had, kind of outside of the regular National Speakers association events and stuff that we went to, we hopped on a Zoom call, and we were just learning more about each other and each other's businesses, and we asked for each other for help on proposals because we were both putting proposals together. And it turns out the projects were a little somewhat similar in scope.

And then we shared our screens, and we're like, oh, my gosh, our proposals look really similar to one another. And then you asked me to look at an early draft of your demo reel, which, again, for our listening audience, that is a very vulnerable space to be. To say, hey, look at my video and give me some feedback on it. And so I think just that also takes it to a new level of vulnerability.

Carolyn Strauss:

I just. I appreciate you so much, and I appreciate your listeners.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Right.

Carolyn Strauss:

You guys, thank you for sticking with us for this episode where it's not just the brilliance of Janel, but you get to get to hang with me for a minute. But I do think it's super important to put a little bit of time and attention into creating a circle of people. One of my affirmations goes, I only. I am only surrounded by people who want what's best for me and I for them. Oh yeah. So I want to be in a circle of people who want what's best for me. And I know you want what's best for me in speaking, in life, in the rescue dog thing. So we both have rescue dogs.

Right. There's all of that. And in business. And I only want that for you. I only want what's best for you and not what I think is best for you, but what you think is best for you.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Yeah. And that gets into some tricky spaces sometimes in friendships. In fact, I am navigating a thing in one of my friendships right now where somebody has very, very different ideas and I don't think. And like I'm having to take a step back and say like, she, this is her life. She's driving the bus, her life. And I can offer my perspective, but then I just have to step back and fully support her in the choices that she's making and the things that she's doing. And sometimes that it can be. That can be a challenge for, for you to in like, it really causes you to think about really what you were just saying in terms of that affirmation.

But like, how do I take a stand for my friend even if they're not making the same choices I would have made?

Carolyn Strauss:

And you can then decide how much time you want to spend with that person and how much time they want to spend with you. And I think it really is important to protect ourselves and our energy and our well being. So if someone was a close friend and they're not anymore, one of my favorite lines goes, you know what? Things have shifted in the world. Things have shifted for us. I can feel it. I know you can feel it. This used to work for me. It doesn't work for me anymore.

What would work is X. Yeah. And then give them the option to vote themselves off the island. Don't just kick somebody off the island without telling them why or that it's not working. But when something's not working, both parties know, both friends know. But I think calling it out is really healthy where you can say, you know what? I love you, but this just isn't working. But what would work is, and maybe you're Having a dinner party for a bunch of people and he or she gets to come with you. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

And I think that, you know, I think so many of our relationships hit an inflection point where they do need to be renegotiated. And sometimes they need to be renegotiated, like, let's spend more time together. And sometimes they need to be renegotiated to say, yeah, like you said, this isn't working in the same way that it used to work. So what would work for us going forward and decided that we're in the grown up thing to do? I mean, it seems like it would be easier to ghost the other person, but we're going to like put on our big girl pants here and take it head on. Absolutely.

Carolyn Strauss:

That's right. I'm just excited that you and I are at the inflection point of spending more time together. There's nobody I would rather hang out with than you.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Me too. And I'm so excited we get to see each other in person next month at our CSP conference that we were just mentioning before. So. Oh. So, listeners, thank you for being along on this very unscripted journey that Carolyn and I are taking you on this afternoon or this morning or this evening or whatever time you're listening and hearing and like witnessing firsthand our friendship grow and hearing a bit about our friendship journey. And you know, I think there is a certain element of risk and vulnerability when you go from that place of being just sort of like people who show up at the same meetings at work to, hey, let's have. And I think it can be, it can be as simple as let's have a 15 minute coffee because I'd love to hear more about your work or more about, you know, what you do outside of work. And I think that's a safe space for people to put themselves in at work.

Because most people will say yes to a 15 minute coffee. It's not a huge investment of their life. And as I said in episode 172, you may have to kiss a lot of frogs. Like, you might not develop like instant friendship with the first person you asked to coffee. So don't put too much weight on that initial meeting. And even if it doesn't, even if, like friendship sparks aren't flying, maybe there was enough there to have a second coffee a month later.

Carolyn Strauss:

So one of my favorite questions is, so who do you know that. So let's say that you're a tennis player and you go and you have coffee with somebody and they're not a tennis player, say, hey, who in your world, who do you know that is a tennis player? Do you know where they play and would they be open to a match and you know what I mean? And that way they're helping you, they're supporting you and getting what you need. You're valuing their relationship and the people in their worlds. Again, it's all about feeling valued and loved. The more you can let people around you feel valued and loved, the better off you are.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Absolutely. Oh, and the better off I am because I have you in my world as one of my friends.

Carolyn Strauss:

Right back at you, babe.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

All right, well, Carolyn, let's wrap this up. If listeners want to know more about you and your work and the work that you do, where should they go to learn more about you, follow you on social media?

Carolyn Strauss:

They should call you. They should call Dr. Janel Anderson and. No, I'm kidding.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Call me and I will give you a personal introduction to Carolyn.

Carolyn Strauss:

No, you can go to Carolynstrauss.com and it's spelled C A R O L Y N S T R A U S S dot com. That's my website. There's a lot about me there. I am very active on LinkedIn. I am on Facebook, I am on Instagram. You know, if you can't find me, have one of your kids look me up because they can find me.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Sorry.

Carolyn Strauss:

I'm used to dealing with baby boomers. Right.

Dr. Janel Anderson:

Well, we will link all that up in the show notes and this is episode 192. So you will find that those show notes @janelanderson.com/192. All right, my friends, Carolyn included, remember that the future of work is not only about technology. It's about the values we hold, like the value of friendship, the communities that we build and the sustainable growth that we're all striving for. We need to keep exploring, keep innovating and keep envisioning the remarkable possibilities that lie ahead. So if you learned something on this podcast or if you enjoyed the conversation I had with Carolyn, please subscribe to the channel on YouTube, subscribe to the podcast on your podcast player of choice. Follow me on social media. All the things, they're all excellent, no cost ways to support me and my work.

And wherever you're listening or watching, please do leave a review. It helps other listeners find me and it lets me know that you are along for the ride. So until next time, my friends, stay curious and I will catch you on the next episode. Thank you again so much, Carolyn, for being with us today.